At that time, if a person could draw, realistically, you draw someone’s likeness… Well, fine art was far, far away. I mean it was a distant thing that remained in Europe somewhere, or the Far East. It had nothing to do with America. I mean, to me that was some very distant thing. And the only relation to art could be, say, magazine illustration, or working for television, or fashion illustration for a newspaper, or something like that. I met an artist in Minneapolis named Cameron Booth, who was always about ten years older than the year. So he was in the Great War — World War I. He was gassed in World War I, stayed in Paris after the war, studied with a number of people in Paris and in Germany, and I met him. He could see that I knew how to draw — I met him at the University of Minnesota — and he said, “Why don’t you get out of town quick? Go to New York, and study with Hans Hofmann.” But Hans Hofmann wasn’t available. So until that time, I got a job. I think I was 17 years old or 18. I got a job painting Phillips 66 emblems for a commercial painting company all through the Midwest. I traveled around in a truck and painted these emblems alone. I was all alone. All over, like a gypsy painter, all through the Midwest. I mean, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, all around that area.