We were lucky. There were always kinds of things that not only gave us an opportunity, but exposed us to that next level. After the payroll program, then there was a computer project to use computers to control all the electricity grid in the dams of the Pacific Northwest. A government agency called Bonneville Power had done a contract with a company called TRW to use computers to do all this control. And TRW had committed to do all this really high-reliability great software work. Well, they found it more difficult than they expected, so they were looking for people who understood these kinds of computers, which Paul Allen and I had done a lot of work on. These were the same computers that were at Computer Center Corporation and at this Portland company, Information Sciences. Anyway, we were kind of famous — but nobody had met us — because we had filed these problem reports. And by the end of these problem reports — they were so sophisticated — it was like, “Who are these guys out in Seattle telling us how to fix all this stuff?” So when TRW was saying, “Hey, we’re desperate. Find us…” they’re telling Digital Equipment, who makes these things, “Find us the best programmers,” and somebody says, “Well, there’s Gates and Allen…” and somebody says, “Nobody’s really met them, but yeah, they’re really good, we ought to be able to track them down.” So they find us, this one guy, and we go for an interview. And these two kids show up and — what was I when I was interviewed? I was 16 when they interviewed me. So they were like, “We can’t hire you.” But then they talked to us about software and we clearly know a lot. And when you’re young and you know a lot, people don’t have any kind of intermediate thing. You’re either what you’re supposed to be, which is a kid that doesn’t know that much, or they think, “Whoa, this guy is the limit!” We were pretty good programmers. But anyway, so we got jobs at this TRW and that exposed me to some programmers, who were way better than I was, who critiqued my work. I could look at their work. And this one guy was really a phenomenal programmer.