Interview: Mike Krzyzewski
Collegiate Basketball Champion

When did you first know what you wanted to do for a career?

Mike Krzyzewski: I always wanted to teach. My ambition in high school was to be a high school coach and teacher, and that's still what I do: teach. So I knew about it when I was in high school.

What about teaching drew you?

Mike Krzyzewski: The thing I loved the most -- and still love the most about teaching -- is that you can connect with an individual or a group, and see that individual or group exceed their limits. You feel like you've been a part of them, you become something bigger than yourself. I really love that. I'm passionate about it, and I've seen that happen for me personally, so I want to do it with other people.

What about basketball attracted you?

Mike Krzyzewski: Basketball was not my main sport in grade school, or even the first year of high school. I was actually a good athlete, a real good athlete in my neighborhood. When I went to high school, an all-boys' school, a Catholic school, I tried out for football, and I didn't make it. It was the first time, athletically, that I was knocked down. Then I went into basketball, and all of a sudden, I said, "Well I'm going to make it," and I kind of focused on basketball. As a result, I started to love basketball, and I played it all the time.

When you found basketball, did you feel like "this is it?"

Mike Krzyzewski: With me and basketball, it became part of me. First of all, what happens is, when you're good at something, you spend a lot of time with it. People identify you with that sport, so it becomes part of your identity. I liked that. "Well, here's Mike, he's a basketball player." That connection was good. It helped me have confidence in other areas, because it wasn't just "Mike," it was "Mike, who is also a good basketball player." So I worked at it, and I really liked it. It became a friend. When I had troubles, I'd go out -- with basketball, you can do it by yourself, too. So you'd go out and shoot, and you'd fantasize. Your imagination could run wild. I always won in my imagination. I always hit the game-winning shot, or I hit the free throw. Or if I missed, there was a lane violation, and I was given another one. It helped me become a much more confident person. It was much more than a game to me, and always has been.

Were your parents supportive of your goal?

Mike Krzyzewski: My parents didn't really understand too much about sport. At that time, we were in a Polish community in the inner city of Chicago, and I was the youngest of a bunch of cousins. Polish families are real big, with cousins and aunts and uncles. My older brother is about twice as big as me, he's about six-foot six, 250 pounds. He didn't play sport. Being in the band, or other things, those were things that you did. They were not frivolous. Playing sport was somewhat frivolous, but I liked it. I rebelled a little bit, and wouldn't go to music lessons and things like that, but I would go and play ball. My parents learned to love it because they saw how much I got out of it.

That's interesting. So they began to see your side.

Mike Krzyzewski: They saw that it impacted me in a positive sense. They understood that I became more disciplined. So they allowed my teachers or my coaches to coach me. They were on the side of the teacher, so to speak, in wanting to see me getting better. I had a really bad temper, when I was growing up. Sport helped me channel that temper into more positive acts. So my parents worked with the coaches and the teachers to make sure that I continued to do that.

Was there a particular experience that you remember as a kid, that had a big effect on you?

Mike Krzyzewski: Probably the biggest thing was the impact all these teachers had on me. I went to a Catholic grade school; there were nuns teaching you. When I was in sixth grade, I wanted to become a priest. It was because of the way the nun took to me. She brought out some things that were not seen as "boyish" at that time, like sensitivity to others. I think that was the start of my becoming a very ethical person, hopefully. Although I didn't become a priest, at that point I started learning my value system. That was a turning point in my life.

What was the nun's name, do you remember?

Mike Krzyzewski: Yes, Sister Lucinda. In fact, she's no longer a nun. As I attained some success at Duke, and was on TV and everything, I got a letter from a lady in Michigan who said, "This is who I was, and this is who I am." We've corresponded since then. She had a big influence on me.

In high school, in sport, I had a coach who told me I was much better than I thought I was, and would make me do more in a positive sense. He was the first person who taught me not to be afraid of failure. He'd tell me to shoot 25 times a game, and I'd say, "No, I can't do that, everyone will hate me." "You do it." And even though I didn't do that all the time, he kept pushing me to be better. If success or talent were on floors, maybe I saw myself on the fifth floor. He always saw me on the twentieth floor. As a result, I climbed more floors when I was with him. I've tried to use that in my way of teaching. He even helped me choose West Point to go to school, where I was afraid of that. He felt that that would give me many more floors in my building, and he was right.

What was his name?

Mike Krzyzewski: His name was Al Ostrowski. He was only in his twenties, and he wasn't even a former basketball player, but he really believed in me, and that had a huge impact. I wasn't alone in my pursuit of whatever excellence I was trying to attain.

Where was that?

Mike Krzyzewski: In Chicago, at Webber High School. It was an all-boys, Catholic school. I just felt that he was always there as a safety net. I became very good. I wasn't a great player in college, but I was a very good high school player. It really shaped a lot of what I do as a basketball coach now.

Were there books that were important to you as a young kid?

Mike Krzyzewski: I probably shouldn't say this, but I was not much of a book person. I loved to learn, but I learn by doing. I learn from my experiences. There's an expression, "ants in your pants." I couldn't sit down long enough to get involved. I'm still not a great reader, but my wife is and my daughters are, and I envy them. I think I got into a bad habit of trying to do something all the time, instead of trying to sit down and take my time a little bit.

Was there any other person who particularly inspired you as a kid?

Mike Krzyzewski: The person who has inspired me my whole life is my Mom, because she taught me commitment. She sacrificed. We weren't dirt poor, but we weren't real rich or anything. I would always have what I needed, and when I looked in her closet, she would have two dresses. She taught me to be outside of yourself, to get outside of yourself, and to be committed to somebody. That's the same thing that I try to teach.

Throughout my life, my mom has been the person that I've always looked up to. She never went to high school. I remember, in an old Polish way, she said, "Mike, I went to the eighth grade twice because the teacher liked me." She had great, self-effacing humor, and loved life. I really admire her.

Is she still alive?

Mike Krzyzewski: She passed away this last year. She was 83, and she died of breast cancer. She was a remarkable, remarkable lady.

When you were a kid, did you sense that you had a particular gift?

Mike Krzyzewski: I knew I was a leader, because I always organized things. When I was growing up, there weren't any Little Leagues in the city. Parents worked all the time. They didn't have time to take their kids out to play baseball and football. We understood that as kids, so when we congregated at a school yard, if you had six people, or ten or 20, somebody had to organize it, and it was always me. So I knew that I had that.

The other thing I knew I had was a high level of competitiveness. I hated to lose. At times, I probably did ugly things, throwing stuff. It was my temper. I learned later to use my anger, or my competitiveness, in more of a positive sense. I knew that I had those two things: the leadership, and a high level of competitiveness. Some of my friends would tell me that. They'd say, "Let's wait 'til Mick comes..." (at that time I was called Mickey) or, "Mickey will show us what to do." I enjoyed that, I've always loved leadership.

I think that's one of the reasons that West Point was so good for me. When people say, "What did you major in?" I think I majored in leadership. That's what I do now: I lead and I teach. If we win basketball games from doing that, then that's great, but I lead and teach. Those are the two things I concentrate on.

Did you feel you were different from the other kids in any way?

Mike Krzyzewski: I did. It may sound so arrogant -- not that I thought I was better -- but I felt that the game couldn't start unless I organized it, or that it wasn't going to be run as well. It sounds arrogant, but I really believed that. I would try to impose my will in those settings, because I found that if you didn't, people would just stand around and do nothing.

So you think you've always liked motivating people?

Mike Krzyzewski: Yes, to get them moving. I didn't like just standing and not doing anything. I needed to be doing something. That's why sport was so good. That's why basketball was so good, because I didn't really need you or anyone else to play it. It would be better if we played four-on-four or five-on-five, but I could go out there alone. I wouldn't just practice my shooting, I would play a whole game in my mind. I didn't need anyone else, and at least I'd be doing something.

Maybe that's one reason I didn't read that much, because I was making up games. That's another thing, we made up games. We didn't have equipment. When it snowed, we would play slow motion tackle football. We would play hockey, but we wouldn't skate. We just made things up. I loved doing that.

Some people who have attained great things or a sense of personal excellence in sport, or in other physical realms, talk about having a vision. Without that vision, they can't see the finish line, they can't see themselves at the finish line. Do you believe your imagination has something to do with winning too?

Mike Krzyzewski: Absolutely.

Imagination has a great deal to do with winning. In my case, and I try to tell kids -- I teach at summer camp -- to imagine yourself. But it's your imagination. Why would you lose in your imagination? Why would you not achieve really neat things in your imagination? Why would you let someone else do your imagination for you? So in all these games that I would fantasize, I always won, and I always played well. Therefore, as a player, as a coach, even though we might have lost in a season or not won a championship, it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy that I'm going to win some time. I've never felt myself a loser. I never let a defeat determine what I think of myself. I think that I win. I don't all the time, but if I play long enough, I'm going to be a winner. I believe wholeheartedly that that came about because of imagination when I was younger.

Have you ever had doubts your abilities and been a little confused?

Mike Krzyzewski: I think you're not a human being unless you have doubts and fears. Being in a team sport, having good coaches, having support systems are so important. I've been so fortunate in my life that my family has never been jealous of my success. They have shown true love and commitment to me by being supportive. They shared in it. So at times, when I might have been doubting, or fearful, or having those negative feelings, those inhibitors, there was reassurance. And the fact that, ultimately, the fear of losing did not stop me, because I knew even if I lost, I still had these people. I wasn't losing everything. The fear of failure, I was able to get over that because of the support systems.

I've tried to use that in teaching my own players over the years. I'm fortunate now that I coach at Duke University and we've won a lot. I have some kids who haven't failed that much. But when they get to college, they're going to fail some time. That's a thing that I can help them the most with. But in order to do that, you have to connect with that person. That's why I like the support of parents or guardians. Let the kids fall down, and let me pick them up, so we can develop that relationship where we can do it quicker.

So they're not destroyed by their failing.

Mike Krzyzewski: They're not destroyed by it. I think some parents now look at a youngster failing as the final thing. It's a process, and failure is part of the process. I would like it if the teacher and the parents would connect more. I think that used to be, but we're losing a little bit of that right now.

Tell us about the first National title, how that felt. Did you feel, going into that season, that you had the championship team?

Mike Krzyzewski: For a college basketball player or coach, to reach the Final Four is la-la land. You've achieved, you've got your stamp of approval. My first team to do that was in 1986. Then we did it in '88, '89 and '90. But we did not win the National Championship. I feel that, because we were achieving at a high level, I rationalized somewhat, at a moment when maybe I could have pushed my team a little bit more.

In '91, we were playing Nevada Las Vegas, and they'd won 45 in a row. It was almost like it would be okay to lose. Everybody would say, "Oh, that's all right." That, to me, was the biggest obstacle. I was most proud of that game, because, as a leader, I helped my group overcome rationalization at the highest level. When we beat them, and then beat Kansas for the National Championship, everyone was saying, "Boy, you won the National Championship," but for me, it was amazing because I got over that final hurdle, as a leader and a teacher. Now I know how to do that, and I thought it helped me the next year when we won it a second time.

I'm reminded of a scene in the film, Chariots of Fire, where a runner wins the race, and has a feeling of let-down. He says to his girlfriend, "You have no idea how hard it is, to be at this point." You had suddenly reached this exalted level, but how do you push on from there? Is that similar?

Mike Krzyzewski: Yes. It's the challenge of continuing success. What floor are you on as far as your success ladder?

Once you win a National Championship, how do you do that again? How do you get the passion to do that again? We won it again right away, the next year. A lot of it had to do with the fact that I didn't give myself an opportunity to enjoy the first one. I went right away into the second one. I didn't want any "computer viruses" getting into my mind. I even played a game, a mind game, a word game with myself. After you win the next year, people will say you're "defending" your National Championship. I prohibited the use of the word "defend." What I said, for that team, I said, "We've already got the National Championship for that year. We're going to pursue." And sometimes the difference between defend (protective) and pursue (go after), I think, was the difference in us winning it the second time.

Now you might ask, why didn't we win it the third time? I probably didn't do as good a job of coming up with those words, or someone else did a better job of coming up with their words and talent than I did. It's interesting, what the human mind can do.

How do you help the kids get over that kind of defeat? When they're so close, it must be devastating.

Mike Krzyzewski: Each group and each youngster is different. As a leader or coach, you get to know what they need.

In 1989, I remember, we lost in Seattle to Seton Hall. After the ball game, we came back to my suite where we meet. It was the last time our group of people were going to be together. That's the last game. But there were other kids who were coming back. I said, "Instead of going home, we're going to stay through the National Championship game, because we're eventually going to win a National Championship." Sometimes in a defeat, you can set the stage for future victory. I wanted them to feel good about what they had accomplished. Not to like losing, but to like the success that they had. And then to go on, maybe, to put them in a position where they might be able to. I try to do that, and now I'm teaching it in game situations. In November, I might do a thing where it's an end-of-game situation: "Well, this is what we're going to do, fellas, in the Final Four." Little things like that throughout the year create a championship mindset.

So that's how it's done.

Mike Krzyzewski: That and good players. You need some good talent. Not everyone can be Grant Hill or Michael Jordan.

We should talk about that too. What about the teamwork of basketball? It seems to me that there are few sports that are as reliant on it.

Mike Krzyzewski: To me, teamwork is the beauty of our sport, where you have five acting as one. You become selfless. Even though we want huge individual egos, our collective ego is unbelievable. The ability of people to throw themselves into that situation is remarkable. It becomes more and more remarkable in a time when people are so invested in their own interests. The ability to give and connect with others is the single most important thing that we teach. The quality that we need to teach the most is trust, to be honest with one another.

I have a rule on my team: when we talk to one another, we look each other right in the eye, because I think it's tough to lie to somebody. You give respect to somebody. "It's you that I'm talking to right now." As a result, I know that there are going to be times on that bench where there's two seconds to go, or where a kid's having a bad game, and I've got to say, "Look, you're playing horribly, but you're not horrible. So get your head going," or whatever words I might use. "I believe in you." I might not even say it that way. It might be two seconds, and we have to connect. If we haven't done the work beforehand, you can't wait 'til those two seconds to do it. I speak to a lot of groups, and with business groups, a lot of them ask about crisis management. "What do you do with crisis management?" Well, the main thing that you do with crisis management is trust one another. Well how do you get that? Wow, it takes a while. But being honest with one another is the very first and most important step.

That's where teamwork comes in. If you have talent with teamwork, you've got a chance to be a championship team.

Do you manage the crisis by building trust well before the crisis, is that what you're saying?

Mike Krzyzewski: You have to have that trust develop before the crisis. If you haven't had it up to that time, and you have a crisis, then maybe you can use that crisis to develop it, but you're probably going to lose during that time. Maybe you can use that to mold your group together, as long as -- when those things happen -- you have a thing called collective responsibility. Everybody wants to take responsibility when you win, but when you fail, all these fingers are pointing.

I tell my players, "A basketball team is like the five fingers on your hand. If you can get them all together, you have a fist. That's how I want you to play." If, when we lose I say, "You didn't do a good job," there's no fist. Collective responsibility is saying, "We lost. Why did we lose, and how can we get better?" If we can do that, an amazing thing happens.

I love that about my job. But in March or April, it ends. The life expectancy of a team is about eight months. Then the next year, it's a whole new team. So we try to cram in as much as possible. We can't wait two weeks. "Well, I'm going to see how Jimmy reacts to this." We don't have time for that. We've got to tell him, "Jimmy, you're not doing a good job," or "You're being selfish," or "You're great." We've got to cut to the chase right away. I like that about my job.

You're revered in this field as someone who develops a relationship with the kids. How important is that to you?

Mike Krzyzewski: The relationship that I have with my players is the most important aspect of my job. I'm selfish about this. I want to make sure I've had a positive impact on that young man's life. But I also want him to know that he has an impact on my life. Relationships are not one-way. I think coaching is confused at times as being an arrow that only goes to a player. Those players send arrows back to you, and that's where a relationship is developed. I don't make a player, and a player doesn't make me a coach. We make each other. I think, if you're honest with a player like that, they appreciate that.

When they go on that court, even though I'm coaching them, they're alone out there. They're in their underwear. I mean, they wear short and they're exposed. They have to know that they can do it. Am I there for them? Yes, but they have to know that they do it. I tell them that. "I'm impressed with how you can do that."

If people don't know sport that well, they might imagine that when I come into a locker room before a game, I'm going to say "We're going to win one for so-and-so," or "We're going to do it for Duke." That's not always the case.

Sometimes I go into that locker room, and I'm afraid. All of a sudden, I look at Bobby Hurley, or I look at Steve Wojciechowski, or Grant Hill, or kids that have played for me. I see in their eyes anticipation. I see ambition, I see a glaze, and all of a sudden I say, "Holy mackerel, I've got a chance to coach these guys tonight." And it helps me get over my fear, and hopefully I'm doing the same for them. That's when you connect as a group, when that's going back and forth.

You've implied that parents sometimes get in your way.

Mike Krzyzewski: Parents can really help, but they can also really hinder the development of their youngsters. When I was growing up, the teacher was always right in my parents' eyes. If I came home from school and said, "Ma, can you believe? Father Roag did this..." And she'd say, "Father Roag must have had a reason." It wasn't, "Poor Mike. I'm going to go and talk to Father Roag. I'm going to get on him." I'm old-school in that way.

I don't have the time, necessarily to explain everything. If you have to explain everything to everyone, that means you've never developed trust. I would like the parents, if they choose me to coach their son to say, "Coach, I trust you with Grant's development, and I'll do everything I can." That doesn't mean we never talk to them, but I'm going to do some things that put them in tough situations. They're not going to develop fully just by me patting them on the back, or saying, "You're a good boy."

We're not only trying to build good habits. Sometimes we're trying to destroy bad habits. A bad habit being the fear of failure. How do you destroy that? Is there a book on that? Is there a pill that you take? It's different in every individual. In some cases, you have to exorcise that. It takes passion, it takes a lot. If somebody's just looking from outside, they'll say, "Well, you shouldn't do that." I'll say, "No, you don't understand what I'm doing." And I wouldn't try to do it unless I already connected with this kid and we had a relationship.

I need to have that bond between me and that kid. Maybe that's intimidating at times, to the parent. I don't want to be the kid's father, or mother, or take the place of the parent. On the contrary, I want to be that kid's mentor, teacher, coach, whatever name you want to give me.

So you see the role of teacher as one of pushing them higher?

Mike Krzyzewski: I'm extending their limits. As I said before, I don't know how many floors are in their building, but if they're on floor seven I'm with them to 27 or 37. You don't climb those floors by just saying, "You can do it," or even just working hard. You have to attack some things. In doing that, you have to be ethical, you have to be fair. No physical abuse, I'm not saying anything like that. I would never hit a kid. But I'm going to knock the heck out of fears, the fear of looking stupid.

There are kids don't want to do something because they're afraid of looking stupid to their peers. There comes a time when they start protecting themselves, instead of extending. I want to make sure that they're always trying to extend themselves.

How would you describe the contribution that you've made, the most important thing that you think you've done?

Mike Krzyzewski: First of all, I don't think there's only one good coach. There are a lot of good coaches. When you win, it validates what you do. If you win a National Championship, or you win two, people think you have not only seen the Holy Grail, but you've embraced it. Basically, I do what a lot of people do, but I've been able to win.

What I've tried to do is tell people about the simple things of relationships and trust, and to use the coach as a teacher, so we don't become big-headed. I've tried to handle winning well, so that maybe we'll win again, but I've also tried to handle failure well. If those serve as good examples for teachers and kids, then I hope that would be a contribution I have made to sport. Not just basketball, but to sport.

Steve Lavin at UCLA says that meeting you was like meeting Elvis, in a good sense, that he admire you as a coach and as someone who really connects with the kids.

Mike Krzyzewski: Well, I can see myself in Steve Lavin. I'm older now, but I hope I'm still enthusiastic. I think that in sharing ideas with young, enthusiastic people, by associating myself with the Steve Lavins of the world who are trying to learn, it keeps you a little bit more grounded. Also, it gives you a chance to tap into their energy, their enthusiasm. You connect with kids, and look in their eyes and say, "Wow, they don't know what they have, but I'm excited about working with them." That's what I do in my job. The kids I recruit give me a lot.

I know it's hard to single out particular moments, but are there one or two in your career that stand out as the most exciting or thrilling?

Mike Krzyzewski: There are a lot, but two of them will do. After we beat Nevada Las Vegas, in the semi-finals in the 1991 final four, they'd won 45 in a row. The Duke world -- and in some respects the basketball world -- went crazy. We still had to win one more game. We had to beat a really good Kansas team to win the National title. It's so difficult to aim high again, after you've achieved something great, especially right away. Here, 48 hours later, we had to win again, and we did. I love that. I love that we were able to do that.

The second time, I was involved in probably one of the great games in the history of college sport, when we beat Kentucky in '92 for the Eastern Regional Championship. Rick Patino and his team played great, and so did we. We were down by one, with 2.1 seconds to go in overtime, and the world seemed like it was over. At that point we, as a group, connected again, and we said, "We're going to win." We talked through how we were going to win, and then we did. Everyone said we were lucky, but my feeling is that luck favors people who trust one another.

Those two moments are, for me, great moments. Actually, the Kentucky moment was better than winning the two National Championships, because it was the epitome of what I try to get from a team in a crisis situation.

The way you describe it, it sounds like it could have taken half an hour, but it must have been very fast. What you've just described, when you said, "We're going to win." How long did that take?

Mike Krzyzewski: TV time-outs take longer than normal time-outs but, a couple minutes. Our bench was on one end of the court, and Kentucky had just scored at the other end of the court. They scored, and our team called a time-out with 2.1 seconds. You could see our team coming to the bench.

I had a towel in my hand, and I threw it to the floor. I was angry, not because we were losing, but the shot that put us behind was a bank shot, from straight on, and you don't do that. People don't shoot bank shots. To me, it was a lucky shot, and I didn't want to lose that way. So I used my anger properly.

I met my team, and I told them, "We're going to win," and I looked into their eyes. Then, when they sat on the bench, I looked at them again, I said, "We are going to win." I felt we were connected. Then I asked Grant Hill -- instead of telling him what to do -- I asked Grant, "Can you throw the ball 75 feet?" And he said, "Yes, I'll throw it." And by saying it already, I think he had already done it. In fact, I think if you had interviewed him now, he would say that, "Well, I gave my word that I was going to do it." But if I said, "Grant, you throw it," it would have been me telling him to do something. I asked Christian Laettner, "If they ring you up, can you catch it?" He says, "Coach, if Grant throws it, I'll catch it." All of a sudden, there was that -- some people would call that bravado, or cocky talk, but we had gone from walking off the court scattered, mentally and physically, to now, a minute and a half later, to believing that we were going to win.

Everybody interacted in that. Laettner's remark set a very positive tone. It was like, "Yeah, come on, we'll do it." Grant threw it, and Christian caught it, and he shot it, and he hit it, and we won. It was truly a unique time.

I hope I never lose this memory, of what happened in that time of utter happiness for us.

Right in front of me, there was a kid named Richie Farmer from Kentucky. I didn't even see the shot go in, because everyone jumped up, but I knew when he shot it that it was going to go in. Our kids were jumping, and I looked at Richie Farmer, and he was like this: "That could have been us." So my initial thing was to go out to him, and not to our team, just because it seemed a little bit unfair, that you could be in a great game like that, and there was this extreme here, and this extreme down here. As a teacher, I didn't like that, but that's the way it is. That's where great moments come about. But I'll always remember my feeling about Richie, when that happened.

The picture of failure?

Mike Krzyzewski: Right, but it wasn't failure, really. The world would say it was failure. But the difference was so small between us. They played great, but they lost. What I try to get across to our guys, and I hope I did it with Richie Farmer in a brief instant, is to say, "You didn't fail." Sometimes when you say that after you win, people say, "You can say that, because you just won." But I truly felt that. To have empathy for someone who has lost, I think, gives you greater appreciation for what you've won. I think it gives you better perspective than by looking at it as, "We're hot stuff now. We've won."

So it's about ethics too, and empathy.

Mike Krzyzewski: Ethics and empathy. I hope we never lose that in collegiate sport. Professional sport is different. It has an entertainment aspect and, I wouldn't say winning at all cost, but it has a clearer definition of winning. Collegiate, amateur sport does not have that, where only the winner is a winner. There are a lot of winners. I hope I never lose that in amateur sport. We are losing it a little bit, and I worry about that.

What's your next big challenge?

Mike Krzyzewski: My next big challenge is my next team. My goal is not to win a National Championship, though I think we are going to win one again, or more. I believe that, but I don't start out with numerical goals, like: we need to win 22 games, or we have to win a National Championship. Too many things can happen. I don't want that to define what we've just done. I'll know if we've done a good job, and I'll try to convey that to my team.

It's exciting to me. What will these kids bring to me? Even the guys who've played for me before, they left me in April, who will they be when they come back to me in October? It's amazing what happens. How will I react to who they are now? Will I be able to mold a unit that will best make use of their talents? That, to me, is what I do. If people want to watch us do that, and get excited about it, that's great, but I don't coach for the fans.

At Duke University, we have a beautiful cathedral. In the cathedral, there's an altar, and a lot of wood sculpting, carvings, and it's just amazing. I have to think whatever man, or woman, or both, did those things, that if they were just sitting by a lake, making something, that they would make that as good as the one in the altar, because they did it for themselves. Their standards were so good. And then they allowed other people to share it. That's how I try to coach my team. I believe that my standards, or what I want to accomplish for that team, are as high as any fan would want, but maybe the reasoning behind it would be a little deeper, or better for our youngsters to understand or learn from.

I want to ask you about the hyper-popularity of sport, and the fact that so many kids from the inner city and elsewhere, dream of being a Michael Jordan, or Grant Hill. I think a recent survey showed that an unbelievably high percentage of kids growing up in the inner city say they want to be professional basketball players. They'll never make it, statistically. Is there a problem with the way that we glorify sports today, and pay our players? Is that related?

Mike Krzyzewski: The professional game has become so much entertainment. Some of the entertainment things even seep into Pee Wee League. The popularity of sport is going crazy. We're on TV all the time, and being interviewed and whatever. I hope that there will be a little bit of a turn in the questions that are asked of us. Instead of us just talking about how we won a game, or specials on how a team got stronger, there wouldd be questions like: What else do you do?

For the kids who go in the draft early, how many of them come back and actually go to school? There aren't features on them. People who are in these positions, even though some of them don't want to be called role models, they have a responsibility to say how hard it was to get to where they are. And have they missed out on anything? Maybe they wanted an education, are they pursuing it now? Instead of just looking at it one way, to explain it a little bit more.

The other thing I think is that, in glamorizing sport, we glamorize the quick play, the dunk, the behind-the-back play, or whatever. We don't give enough for what teamwork does. So our view of the sport has become very superficial. Very superficial. A lot of the kids who are learning to play the game now, they're depth of knowledge of the game is -- if you liken it to a body of water -- it's like a pond, whereas before it used to be a lake, an ocean. Somehow, we have to add depth to this new culture we're in, because it's creating some bad habits. It's creating a situation where a kid puts all of his eggs in one basket, and he's just not going to be successful, he's not good enough.

Even though he might be the best in his neighborhood, and people around him who have self-serving interests are trying to get him to do it, there are other neighborhoods. There are thousands of neighborhoods. Someone needs to put in their heads: "Yeah, you can go after this, but you can still go after something else." That's why Grant Hill is such a good example, or Michael Jordan, who left early but went back and got his education. People don't talk about those things as much as they need to talk about them.

Before your time, Duke University was known primarily as a great center for academic study, not a place you would imagine a world-class basketball emerging from. How has the academic environment enriched the basketball program, or vice versa?

Mike Krzyzewski: I feel very fortunate to coach at Duke, because the ideals that I have for a student athlete are what happens at Duke. It's not like I have to impose that in their daily lives. They have to live that at Duke. Duke limits some of my recruiting, because not every youngster can get into Duke. But on the other hand, it broadens my recruiting, in that I can recruit kids from everywhere if they're the type of kid who can make it at Duke. That doesn't mean that kids who don't make it at Duke are worse or better, it's just that different schools are for different kids.

What I'm able to do is bring in kids who want to do something besides play basketball. To me, that adds depth to them. They passionately want to be good basketball players, and play on a championship level team, but they also have another passion, whether it be business, law, medicine or engineering. I like that.

The kids we recruit have a lot of talents. I don't want to pigeon-hole them in one area. In fact, I tell them they shouldn't come to Duke unless they want to do well academically, do well basketball-wise, and do well socially. I truly believe that, with the diversity we have in our student body, they learn more from the social contact they have with other successful, ambitious students, than they will from teachers or from me.

Just living in a success-oriented environment, they're able to have a better perspective on things. Their self-worth doesn't hinge on whether we scored more points than another team. I think thatt's healthy.

It sounds like they'll be better prepared for the inevitable future, when their playing days are over. Even if they're at the highest level, it doesn't last long.

Mike Krzyzewski: I think they'll be better off, whether they're pros or not. They're able to handle the professional life better. They haven't stopped being a human being, like, "I'm going to be a professional basketball player for these ten years." No. "I'm going to be a guy who likes a lot of things, and who really wants to win at professional basketball." When that's over, they still have an identity.

You want an identity for your whole life. If you choose something that's going to give you an identity only for so long, and then it's over, boy, you've given up everything. You don't want that to happen to a kid. You don't want that to happen to a person. You want them to be well-rounded.

What does the American Dream mean to you?

Mike Krzyzewski: To me, the American Dream is the ability to pursue what you want to pursue. To be confident enough that whatever you want to be, if you have the talent, the desire, and the support throughout, you can attain it. I am very much the result of an American Dream. In fact, I didn't dream as highly as I've actually attained. My dream was to be a high school teacher and coach. That's what I wanted to do, and I was on a track to do that. But then I went to West Point, and all of a sudden I'm doing a lot more.

I think the ability to have that, and to pursue it, is the biggest freedom that we could have. I hope we perpetuate that type of thought from generation to generation.

Your grandparents were Polish immigrants.

Mike Krzyzewski: Both sets of grandparents were born in Poland. There was no way that they could have foreseen. No way my mother -- when I used to come back to Chicago in recruiting, I'd always stay with my mother. My Dad passed away when I was a senior at West Point. I'd come back, and we'd already been on TV, and she would just be sitting there late at night, and she'd say, "Mike, how is it you?" And she wasn't knocking me, it was just that our group of people weren't supposed to be able to do that. I would always tell her, I said, "Ma, because of you." I said, "You made me good enough, where I can do this. You made enough sacrifices to put me with people who would help train me to do this. It's because of you." And I hope that whatever I do, I can do that for my kids.

Thank you very much, Coach.

Mike Krzyzewski: Okay. I thank you.