Interview: Alberto Gonzales
Former Attorney General of the United States

Let's start at the beginning. What was it like for you growing up in Houston, Texas?

Alberto Gonzales: I have memories of a great childhood. Like many people that I've talked to around the country who came from impoverished backgrounds, you really don't have an idea about how poor you are until a certain age. But I had a father who provided for his family, a mother who worked at home taking care of eight children. We learned some basic values, learned discipline, learned the value of hard work, learned the value of education, and so my memory of my childhood is a very positive one. And, you know, it's something that I think laid a very strong foundation for me and is one of the primary reasons that I think that I've been as successful as I have been.

What can you tell us about your parents?

Alberto Gonzales: My parents met as migrant workers when they were young. Once they got married and they started having children, they had to settle down, and so they settled in Houston, and my father worked construction. My memories of when I lived at home were of my father working construction and going with him on some Saturdays to the construction site, and I would play around as he did construction work. And later on, as I got older, probably in high school and in college, he got a job working at a maintenance crew at a rice mill. And my mom worked in the home, worked very hard in the home the whole time that I lived at home. And it was not until my father died, during my last semester in law school, that she began working outside the home. In fact, it wasn't until about then she learned how to drive. And so, as you might imagine, we only had one car. In fact, my early memories, we didn't have a car, and I still remember my dad walking down the street as he would go to work at his construction site to catch a bus, and we were running outside and waving to my dad goodbye, and so we didn't have a car for some time. And we finally got a car. Of course, my dad used that to get to work. And I remember whenever we would have to go somewhere during the day, like to go down to the health clinic or something like that, my mom would pack us all up, all the kids, and we'd walk down to the bus stop and take the bus to where we needed to go, because we only had the one car, and my mom didn't know how to drive, and it wasn't until after my father died that she learned how to drive.

Eight children? Are you and your siblings close?

Alberto Gonzales: I had seven siblings, one of my brothers died when he was a relatively young man, but I'd say we're fairly close. They all still live in Houston. I'm the only one that has ventured away from Texas.

Growing up, what was hard for you? Were there things you didn't like to do, or things you had difficulty doing?

Alberto Gonzales: I don't know if there were things that I had difficulty doing. There were obviously hardships in my life and in my family.

My father had a terrible drinking problem. He was an alcoholic, and there were many nights when I remember him coming home and, you know, severe arguments with my mother and throwing the pillow over my head and just trying to not listen to all of that. I mean, unfortunately, those happened way too often. But one story I do like to tell about my father is, no matter how much he drank on a particular night, if it was a work day the next morning, he was always up and he was always gone to provide for his family, so I learned that lesson very early on. But, you know, in that respect, I mean there were some difficult times in my family.

Did you have other role models?

Alberto Gonzales: You know, I'm often asked that question. The three biggest influences of my life, in terms of maturing me as a person, were my mom, my dad and our President, who's given me some wonderful opportunities. I've learned a lot from him in the various roles that I've seen him in, as a father, and as a governor, and as a president. So I'd say that he, next to my parents, has had the biggest influence in my life, outside, of course, my beautiful wife, Rebecca, and our three sons.

Were you a good kid?

Alberto Gonzales: I think my mom would be a better judge of that. I think I was a pretty good kid. I loved school, I did well in school, always have done well in school, I think I got that from my mother. I've never been in any serious problem. Of course, being the Attorney General, I might want to exercise some restraint in describing my past history. But I think I learned discipline from my parents. My mother was devout in her religion, gave me a Catholic upbringing, so I learned right from wrong very early. I don't think I gave my parents too much trouble.

And you were a good student, you say?

Alberto Gonzales: I did well in school because I enjoyed it. And, you know, I was in the Honor Society up through high school and things of that nature. I played sports, I loved sports. Growing up as a kid, I played a lot of sports during the summer with my brothers. I like to tell the story that my memories of my youth for the summers was, we'd get up in the morning -- and this is when there were four boys of comparable age -- and we'd play baseball, two on two, all morning. We'd make a field in our back yard, we'd put up a backstop -- we had chicken wire -- and we'd play baseball, two on two, all morning, go in, have lunch, my mom would then make us lay down and take a nap, which we hated, and after that we'd play baseball all afternoon. And then, of course, like anyone who played baseball as a kid, I really wanted to be a professional ball player, thought maybe that would be something I could do. So I loved sports, but I also loved school and did well in school. But because my father had a second grade education and my mother had a sixth grade education, there really wasn't any talk about going to college in my family. Their goal was to try to get me through high school. And so when I graduated from high school, even though I did well, I graduated with honors, there wasn't any talk about me going to college, so I enlisted in the Air Force.

When you were growing up, were there particular books that influenced you or were important to you?

Alberto Gonzales: I don't recall. I do recall I loved reading. I remember my sister and I used to walk by ourselves, about a mile and a half, to an elementary school. The libraries would be open and we'd be able to check out books. I would check out history books, books about sports. Books about animals I really, really enjoyed, but I can't recall any that particularly inspired or motivated me.

Were there any teachers that especially influenced you when you were in school?

Alberto Gonzales: I can't think of any in particular that influenced me as a kid.

Certainly, when I was in college, I was influenced by a Constitutional Law professor named Doc Colbertson at Rice University, and he taught Constitutional Law. We referred to him affectionately as Doc C. And that's when I really developed an interest in the law and thought that this would be something that I would enjoy doing. I enjoyed the constitutional law issues and the discussions about what, in fact, what does our Constitution mean and what rights are we to derive from the words in the Constitution. So he had an effect on me. And in fact, occasionally I still get correspondence from him. I sometimes see him quoted in stories about me. And so I think he takes special pride in what I've been able to achieve.

Is he still grading you?

Alberto Gonzales: I'm sure he's still grading me. You'll have to ask him what he thinks is an appropriate grade for what I've been doing these past few years.

You were an honor student in high school. Did that surprise you?

Alberto Gonzales: Did it surprise me? No, I enjoyed school, and I hung around a group of kids who all enjoyed school and did relatively well. So no, it didn't surprise me, not at all. It may have surprised my parents, but it didn't surprise me.

You didn't go on college right away after high school?

Alberto Gonzales: No, I didn't. As I said,

I enlisted in the Air Force, and my first assignment was at Fort Yukon, Alaska, it's a little remote radar site north of the Arctic Circle. There were about 100 GIs there, and the nearest civilization was an Indian village about a mile away. There were 600 native Americans who lived there. And the only way you could get to Fort Yukon during the winter was by airplane, in the summer by airplane and by boat, down the Fort Yukon River. But it was a very isolated assignment. I took that assignment, I volunteered for that assignment because the Air Force told me that during my four-year commitment, that I would have one remote assignment in Alaska, and I could choose to do it up front or wait until it came up in my rotation. And my first assignment was Key West, Florida, and so I made the decision to bypass Key West and go to Fort Yukon because I wanted to get the hard stuff out of the way first. And it really -- it was one of the best decisions I ever made, because when I was stationed there, there were two Air Force Academy graduates, and I listened to them talk about their experiences at the Academy, and I thought this is something I'd like to do. So I began the process of seeking an appointment to the Academy and was fortunate enough to get in.

What was it like for a young man from Texas being north of the Arctic Circle?

Alberto Gonzales: It was a great adventure. I was single, 18 years old, and I had never been out of the state of Texas. In fact, I had never been in an airplane until my flight to basic training in San Antonio. The Northern Lights and playing softball at midnight, it was really a great adventure for a young kid. I think it would have been hard for someone who had a family and kids, to be away for a year. You were allowed a 30-day leave at some point during your year, but otherwise, being away from your family would have been tough. But for someone who was single, it really was a great adventure.

You went to the Air Force Academy, but you didn't stay there, did you?

Alberto Gonzales: No, I didn't. I was there for two years.

The (Air Force) Academy was tough for me because there's such a concentration on engineering and physics and chemistry, and my strengths lie in English and history and political science and law and government. And so I did well in terms of being on the dean's list every semester, but I struggled. It was hard. I had to work very, very hard. I was the freshman class council president, and so I assumed responsibility early while I was at the Academy. Because I did as well as I did, I was able to participate in a gliding program during one summer, so I learned how to fly gliders. I mean it was a great experience.

But I started thinking things over, probably towards the end of my freshman year or the beginning of my sophomore year.

I really began wondering whether or not I should pursue a military career. I realized as I was taking some of my history courses and political science courses at the Academy, this was something that I had more of an interest in. And so I thought about applying to a school, Rice University in Houston, and this was a school I did used to dream about attending when I was a small boy, because when I was 12 and 13, I got a job selling soft drinks at their football games, Rice University football games. And I would watch the students stroll back to the campus, their dorm, and I would dream about what it would be like to be a student there. But that was it, it was just a dream. But when I was at the Academy and began thinking about my future, I sort of put it in God's hands and applied to transfer to one school, and that was Rice. And if I got accepted, then I knew it was meant to be to go back home to Houston and maybe pursue a career in law, and if I wasn't accepted, then I would stay at the Academy -- and hopefully at the time, I was very interested in becoming a fighter pilot -- and so I was accepted, and then I transferred to Rice University.

So you went from there to Harvard Law School?

Alberto Gonzales: From there to Harvard. I did well at Rice. When I got to Rice, I realized I didn't have to take any more engineering and science and math courses. I had satisfied all the requirements for those kind of courses at the Academy, so I was able to take courses that I really liked, and I did really well. As a result, because of how I did at Rice, and also because of my being a veteran and of my experiences at the Academy, I think, I was fortunate enough to be accepted at Harvard Law School.

When you got out of law school, what was your intention, what did you want to do?

Alberto Gonzales: I know I wanted to go back home to Houston, so I joined a large firm in Houston. It was a firm that I had clerked at, Vincent and Elkins. It was a very fine firm, and I knew that I would get the best training possible as a lawyer. And so I began working at Vincent and Elkins as a business lawyer. I never had any ambitions to get involved in politics or government service, didn't think about that. But early on, I did get involved in community service in Houston. I realized that someone of my experience, where I was at -- at Vincent and Elkins, a very powerful player in the business and legal community in Houston and in Texas -- that I could have a significant impact, and that people were interested in having me involved in various causes, particularly in the Hispanic community. And so I got involved very early on, joining various groups and serving on various boards. My law firm was very supportive. I think they realized the importance of civic involvement for their lawyers, and so I was able to be involved in lots of groups, and the Houston Bar Association, Big Brothers and Sisters, Catholic Charities, Leadership Houston. There were a lot of groups that I wanted to be involved with, because I realized that that was important, and I felt that, some obligation to try to give back to our community, particularly the Hispanic community, where I saw too many of our kids dropping out of school, and I wanted to be involved in issues and with people that were focused on addressing that problem.

What do you think then-Governor George W. Bush saw in you, that he tapped you for public service?

Alberto Gonzales: That's a very good question. I often tell the story about the first time that I met with him after I came on board as his lawyer. We had a meeting in Austin, this was a few weeks after he was first elected governor. He and I didn't really know each other. We had met a few times during the campaign. My wife reminds me that I first met him in 1988, when he came to Houston as a surrogate speaker for his father, who was running for president. So I didn't know him, and I was surprised that he wanted me to be his lawyer.

So the first time that I met with him (George W. Bush) in Austin, about a week or so after the election, he talked to me about what he expected, what his vision was, what his goals were as governor. And then I asked him, "Why me?" and he told me that he had first heard about me many years ago, when his father was looking to identify rising minorities in America and bring them to Washington and serve in his administration. And I had come to Washington and interviewed, I think with the Veterans Administration and with HUD, and was offered some positions. But I was at a point in my career at Vincent and Elkins, where I wanted to stay and make partner, and so I said no, and Governor Bush described it that he -- I first got on his radar screen because I had turned down his old man for a job. And we, you know, when you work with someone as their lawyer, if the relationship is right, you really get to know them as a person. You get to see how they deal with adversity and defeats. You see how they deal with victories. Are they modest? Do they learn lessons from experiences? And so I developed a good relationship with this man, and we've been through some difficult issues together, and you know, you develop a relationship when you share those kinds of experiences.

It's been a long road from your boyhood in Houston to the jobs you held in the state of Texas, to the jobs you held in Washington, and now as the first Hispanic Attorney General. Could you have foreseen that journey?

Alberto Gonzales: No, I could not have foreseen the journey here. It's one of many great chapters in the story of America.

I travel a lot around the country, and when I was in Texas government I traveled a lot around the state, and there were many people, many people who have similar stories. I mean, it is the greatness of this great country. People that come -- because they come up to me after I speak -- and they say, "My story is just like yours. My parents, you know, they had nothing, and here I am. Everyone in our family has gone to college, and this is what I'm doing." I mean it's a wonderful story. So my story is not unique by any stretch. I mean there are many people in this great country who have come from similar beginnings, and because they've worked hard and applied themselves and have put themselves in a position to take advantage of an opportunity that comes along, they're able to do some wonderful things.

In any life's journey there are setbacks and disappointments. Have you had them, and if so, how did you deal with them?

Alberto Gonzales: I'm sure if I sat down with my wife, she could readily remind me of setbacks and disappointments. But I really have been very fortunate in my life. I don't know why that's the case.

I could leave today, government service today, and just thank God and be appreciative and grateful for everything that's happened in my life. It's been a terrific ride, as far as I'm concerned. I've got a wonderful family, a wonderful wife who loves me, wonderful kids, and so it's -- I really do not have any complaints. I wish I'd get more sleep in the job that I do, but to be able to, you know, to walk into the Oval Office and brief the most powerful person in the world on a Supreme Court vacancy, or to be in the Situation Room when the President orders our young men and women into battle, or to walk into the residence and give the president a piece of paper that you drafted for him to sign -- a piece of paper you know is going to be analyzed and reviewed by historians for years to come -- that's some pretty good stuff, and so I've got no complaints.

What's the hardest part of your job as Attorney General, or in any of the positions you've held advising the President?

Alberto Gonzales: You never like to say no to the President, but you have to. And maybe that's one of the reasons why the President likes to keep me around is because he knows that I'll be honest with him and tell him what I think. To be effective, to be an effective lawyer, either as Counsel or as Attorney General, you have to say no. And not no just to the President, but sometimes no to other cabinet officials, no to other members of the White House staff who want to pursue or push a particular agenda that's important for the President, and you've got to say, no, you can't do that, and so sometimes that's pretty tough. The other thing that's sometimes difficult is -- and this is a lesson that I've learned from our President is -- there are limits to what can be done, even for the Attorney General and even for a president. You do the best you can, and sometimes we see problems, and what I love about this job is, we can see a problem and throw the entire weight of the Department behind it, and often times we can get it solved or at least make progress in solving the problem. But there are some things that I know that are just -- I can't get solved, at least during my tenure as Attorney General. And I think you have to have sort of a maturity and a faith in knowing that you've done the very best you can, and at the end of the day you move on, comfortable in the knowledge that you've done your best.

What gives you the greatest sense of satisfaction?

Alberto Gonzales: My family. There's no question about it. As I talk to young lawyers and students, I caution them about learning their profession well. You've got to be able to provide for yourself, so learn it well -- but not to ignore your family. You always have to make time for your family. There is nothing as satisfying as spending time with your kids, having your kids hug you, or having your wife give you a warm embrace. Nothing is as comforting when times get tough, and they do get tough. When they get tough, you need to have your family with you. As I grow older, I really feel how important it is to spend time with the family. I wrestle with these important issues now, but they get resolved somehow. They have to get resolved. Ten years from now, those issues will seem inconsequential, quite frankly, but my relationship with my wife and my relationship with my sons will mean everything. It'll still be there. Sacrificing that is too high a price to pay, so there's got to be the proper balance between family and profession.

Nobody can hold the positions you have, whether in Texas or in Washington, without controversy. How do you deal with that criticism?

Alberto Gonzales: I have learned that the media often times writes things that are incorrect because they don't have all the information, and so you learn to live with it. I mean that's just the way it is. There's some information that cannot be shared, should not be shared, and so you don't share it. And so people write stories, and it's really hard on the family sometimes because they feel it and it's frustrating for them, but that's part of the business, and if you can't handle the criticism, then you shouldn't be in government, because it's a fish bowl, it really is. Everything you say and everything you do is certainly analyzed by critics and by the media. If you make a mistake, everybody knows about it, and so it's something that you just have to learn to deal with. And, you know, criticism or analysis is not a bad thing. I think that we should be accountable to the American people. We are their public servants, and so that's not something that I think is a bad thing, I think that it's a good thing. I wish more of it was accurate. But to the extent that you're talking simply about the analysis or criticism or scrutiny of the way that we do our jobs, absolutely, we should be totally accountable to the American people.

Do you ever second-guess yourself?

Alberto Gonzales: Do I ever second-guess myself? One of the things -- I really have enjoyed watching President Bush make decisions, because he's very good about getting information, hearing all sides. I think he would have made a good judge in that respect. But what he does, he gets his information, and then I'm sure he thinks about these big issues, and he makes a decision, and he moves on, and sometimes there's criticism. It doesn't matter. He's made a decision, and you move on. And so I think I'm a little bit like that. You have to be. There are too many decisions to make. I've learned that, certainly at the Department of Justice, there are too many big decisions to make to second-guess yourself. You surround yourself with a good team -- people that you trust, whose judgment you really value. And they make recommendations to you, and based upon those recommendations, you make your decision, and then you move on, because you've got other big decisions to make. You really -- you have little time to second-guess yourself.

What do you think are the important qualities for leadership, for achievement, based on your experience?

Alberto Gonzales: I think you have to have a vision about where you're going. You can't expect to bring others along with you if you don't know where you're going, I think that's very, very important. You have to be courageous, because you're going to be making some decisions that are going to be unpopular and you have to accept that. You cannot make decisions based upon what everyone is going to like, it just doesn't work that way. And so sometimes that happens, where you're going to be criticized. You know you're going to be criticized, but you know it's the right thing to do and you have to do it, and if you can't do that, you're not going to be an effective leader, as far as I'm concerned. I think loyalty is something that's also very, very important, and that's a lesson that I really have learned from our President. To inspire loyalty really motivates the troops. People want to serve, and they want to succeed. They want the agenda of our President to succeed because of the tremendous loyalty and affection that we hold for our leader, and I think that's really a very important trait that all successful leaders have.

Is there anything that you'd do over again, given a chance?

Alberto Gonzales: When I think about that, I think about the decisions that I've made that had a tremendous impact, or tremendously affected the road I've traveled, like the decision to go to Alaska instead of Key West, the decision to leave the Academy, the decision to leave a lucrative partnership in Houston and go work for this political newcomer, George W. Bush. I was fortunate, I made good decisions during those times. I don't think I would change anything in my life, because I'm not sure I would end up where I am today. Were there mistakes? Yes. Were there things that I wish never happened, people that may have been hurt? Yes, but I have no complaints about my life.

What do you know now about leadership or achievement that you didn't know when you were younger?

Alberto Gonzales: Oh, I knew very little when I was younger. You think you know so much when you're younger, and as you get older, you realize how little you know. You mature and you look back and you begin to realize what is really important in your life. It really is our relationships, particularly family relationships that are most important. At the end of the day, I'll get very old and I'll die, and the plaques and the awards won't mean much to anyone, but my legacy will live with my kids, and hopefully my grandkids.

I remember once when I was campaigning to remain on the Texas Supreme Court, this was in 2000 -- and I was being interviewed by the Houston Chronicle (editorial) board, and they asked me, "Why in the world are you doing this? Why did you even go into public service? You were at Vincent and Elkins, you were doing great, and now you're out here having to ask for our endorsement in order to remain on the bench for a salary that's well beneath what you were earning before." And I told the story that if you go into the office of the Texas Secretary of State, there is this lobby, and on the walls are the pictures of all of the former secretaries of state, and I said, "You know, at some point in time, my children's' children and their children are going to be able to walk into that office, and they will never have known me, but they'll know that their grandfather or great-grandfather was the Secretary of State," and I said that was important for me. Not because it's important to be remembered, but I think it's important to make a difference in one's life and to make a mark. And so if I can do something to have shown that I made a difference, that I made a mark in the history of this world, to me, that's important. That's good stuff.

Looking ahead, what most concerns you about America as we head into the 21st century?

Alberto Gonzales: I do worry about the future safety of our country. I think the attacks of 9/11 are not a unique circumstance. There are still those whose intent it is to destroy our way of life, to commit an assault on our values, and that worries me. I worry for my children. They will never have the same kind of life that I've had. They won't grow up in a world like mine. That's one of the reasons I'm certainly motivated, as I know our President is, to do what we can to protect America. We all have to live our lives as normally as possible; that's what we want for every citizen. But I think life is going to be a little bit different now, and that's just a sad reality.

What would you like your legacy to be? How would you like to be remembered?

Alberto Gonzales: Well, primarily, I would love to be remembered as a good husband, a loving father. You know, I want to be a successful Attorney General. It's too great an opportunity to squander. It would be a shame to be given this position with these authorities and not do something pretty terrific for our country. Our President, during our second cabinet meeting, told his cabinet that he didn't want us to play little ball. He wanted us to play big ball, to do great things, to be bold, and that's what I intend to do. We're here to do something, to leave a mark, and I hope to do that as Attorney General.

One last question. What would you like to do that you haven't done? What do you see beyond this job? It can't last for more than another three years.

Alberto Gonzales: It won't last, and that's okay. We get to go back to Texas and enjoy life. I don't know what will happen. I assume that if I do a good job as Attorney General, everything else will take care of itself. I have been very fortunate in my life. I've made good decisions, I've had good advice from people around me. I've had God's help, I know, and so I'm confident. What will be will be.

When young people turn to you for advice about their lives, about their careers, what do you say to them?

Alberto Gonzales: Normally, I say, "Get an education. Get the best training you can to put yourself in the best position if the next George W. Bush comes along to give you a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. A lot of kids are already well educated and highly motivated. I think I would try to make them understand what is really important, the priorities in life. In pursuing achievement, what is really important at the end of the day will not be the achievement itself, but those around you who love you and will share in that achievement with you.

That's great. Thank you so much for speaking with us.