Alan Simpson Interview (page: 7 / 9) Statesman and Advocate	Print Interview

What was the toughest part, for you, being in the U.S. Senate?

Alan Simpson: Loyalty.

Get the Flash Player to see this video. If they put a word on your tombstone, it will be just L, for loyalty. It will get you in a lot of trouble. But I did that, and I never regretted it. Loyalty to Ronald Reagan. Loyalty to an issue. When others are saying, "Oh, yeah, I'll help you," and then it comes time for a vote and they're not there. Loyalty on the issue of Robert Bork who -- whether you like him or not -- that was the one that galled me and it isn't the Thomas hearings that got to me. You know, I can read and write. But Bork, who'd been on the bench for five and a half years and done 104 opinions, and none of them ever reversed! And six of his dissents became majority opinions of the United States Supreme Court! And before my eyes, they turned him into a racist, an invader of the bedroom, sterilizer of women, poll-taxer, gargoyle! I couldn't believe that. I never will believe it again. I mean, Yale professor, wanted to withdraw his name before the vote. I said, "I tell you..." What would you do? I said I wouldn't take my name. I'd make them vote, and at least 38 people will get up and tell what a remarkable person you are, from both sides of the aisle. Lloyd Bentsen and others, both sides of the aisle. Say, "This is Robert Bork. What have they done?" I said, "At least your grandchildren can read that instead of this... whatever happened to you."

They used that textbook then. The People Rising, by Michael Pertschuk, that's the textbook now on how to destroy a nominee. Now, they've had their own destroyed. The Thomas hearing was a tough one for me because I practiced law, and she never charged him with sexual harassment. I said, "Wait a minute. What the hell is this about?" She wants us to be "aware of his behavior." Well, what was his behavior? They both watched porn movies on Saturday mornings at Yale University and then talked about them. I said, "Okay, but that's not sexual harassment." You can get in a lot of trouble doing that. Packwood was not charged with sexual harassment, but apparently he met the present test, which is one grope, one grab and if they say no... What a sick situation. But the Thomas hearings raised sexual harassment to a very remarkable point. Now that point has been diminished. I got hammered around pretty good in there, but as I say, I practiced law and when you practice law you use words. And neither Packwood nor Clarence Thomas were ever charged with sexual harassment. So that will get you in a lot of trouble.

How do you handle being hammered? How do you handle criticism?

Alan Simpson: You get with your loved ones, is what you do. Ann was there, but Ann said to me, "I got a great idea for you, with what's happening with you with the media. Why don't you just shut up?" And I said, "I've never heard you use those words with me in all 30 (then) years of our marriage." She said, "Yeah, but you can't win, so why don't you just shut up?" Well, I said, "I'm going to shut up. These bastards, they distort what you do, and then you go back and remember what you've read and what you've learned and the things that were an inspiration to you, that you tacked on the wall of the locker. Like Kipling's poem "If." Great phrase. "If you can stand to see the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools..." I live by that one.

After going through things that I relate in that book I wrote -- and I was asked to write that book about the media, it's not a bitter book -- but I went underground for about six weeks. I just didn't go to things. I wasn't sucking my thumb in my room at night under the bed, but during that time, Pamela Harriman called me. She was having a party. She said, "Al, I want you and Ann to come to this party." I said, "Pamela, I am underground right now." She said, "I know you are, and that's why I want you to come to this party. It will be partly for you." Now, think of this, this was the doyenne of the Democratic Party, but she was a wonderful, magnificent woman. And she wanted to do that. And I said, "I won't. I can't. I'm not ready." "Well," she said, "I want you to know that I'm here and I care about you." Kay Graham, who I really, really love, and -- forget the philosophy, forget all that other stuff -- she said, "What in the hell are you doing now?" "God," she said, "Ann, will you come over here and train him up." She said, "I can't do anything with him." She said, "Well now, you're just going to lose all your respect you had. Why don't you just quit? Why do you have to listen to that?"

Get the Flash Player to see this video. Things would appear in the paper and I thought, "Who was there?" There wasn't anybody there, unless they're using a 5,000-power telescope on me. One day out in front of the White House, no one was there, some guy rushes up and he's got a sign and he says, "You put a killer on the court! A baby killer!" I said, "Who?" If I were from Pennsylvania... you wouldn't even talk to guys like that in New York, but I said, "Who are you talking about?" He said, "Clarence Thomas." I said, "Good Lord, you must be goofy." "Well," he said, "I curse you in the name of Jesus Christ." And I said, "Well boy, what a name to use to curse somebody." And I just walked away. Next day in The Washington Post it says, "Simpson, after picking on Anita Hill, and picking on Betty Friedan, is now picking on people out in front of the White House. He gave some guy the bird and told him to stuff it and jumped in his chauffeured limousine and drove away." I thought, boy, who are these bastards? So you get a thick skin and it grows back double-strength after it gets ripped off. Rip it off and somehow there's a meticulous second skin that grows, and it grows tougher than the next one. Then you get a rose in the mail from your daughter saying, "We love you," or your son writes or something, and those things all fall into perspective.

What would we do? Corny as hell, but George Bush had it right. What would we do without family and friends? When you consider your friends, among those friends were people like Pamela Harriman -- and I wasn't in the social scene with her -- this was friendship. Her husband and my father were governors together. Kay Graham, been in her house many times, that was friendship. I couldn't do anything for Kay Graham, but I enjoyed those people. Vernon Jordan wrote me and said, "I don't know what you're doing in this Thomas hearing, Simpson. Whatever it is, I don't like it, but I don't want to see you get hurt."

Can you be successful in public life and hang onto your principles?

Alan Simpson: Sure, unless whatever you were in you'd be selling out. It isn't just politics where you sell out. You could be in business, or selling cows, and you could be a sell-out. It isn't the U.S. Senate that causes a person to sell out, or go into corruption. If that's your bent, you can do it anywhere you are. Or if you're a stressful person, how do you get through that all? You're going to be stressed milking cows. So we laughed. All of us who got out said, "None of us have ever been indicted." There was no reason why any of us would have been, because you just do it. You do it when you're all by yourself at three in the afternoon on a Sunday, picking zits in front of the mirror and you say, "You're a pretty good egg."

Were there ever any self-doubts?

Alan Simpson: Oh sure. Self-pity, all those things go with it. All humans have that.

Get the Flash Player to see this video. The most corrupt thing in the world is self-pity. I had plenty of that at one time. Ulcers, gas, heartburn, BO, I've done all that, and so will every human being. Your only hope is that you get it out of your way before you're 60. Because when you're 60 or 70, it's tough then to beat it back. But there isn't a soul within the range of my voice that isn't going to go through some tumultuous and dramatic thing in their life where they will be filled with self-pity, thoughts of self-destruction, depression, all the rest. And if anybody out there says that ain't the way it is, send me your name and address on a box top.

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