Robert Schuller Interview (page: 4 / 6) Crystal Cathedral	Print Interview

It's quite a phenomenon that the Crystal Cathedral was paid for before it even opened, wasn't it?

Robert Schuller: Yes, because I am a very good business person. I started with $500 dollars. Today, after 40 years, I'd say our property is worth well over $100 million, and we have no debt. That's the reason I have succeeded.

I have said this to every President in the Oval Office, starting with Nixon, and to President Clinton only three weeks ago. I have said that we should never plan long-term debt if we're running a non-profit business, because the interest of the debt doesn't have value. You don't report it to the IRS. Profit making corporations are a totally different ball game.

So we never did have debt. When we came to building this cathedral, I was stuck with having to practice what I preached. I just set a goal, that we would raise the money, and that we would be debt free when we dedicated it. It darned near killed me, because this was 1977, and inflation was 30 percent that year, then another year at 30 percent, and then another year 33 percent. The prime interest rate went up to 22 percent while we were trying to keep the cathedral debt-free. If you can't borrow the money, then you have to go out and collect it.

Get the Flash Player to see this video. So the building, instead of being seven million, it was 20 million. I said to President Carter, whom I respect and love, I said, "I'll take the blame for the first 10 million, but the second 10 million is our country's fault." Inflation -- 30 percent of 10 million -- boosted it to 13, and then 30 percent, you're up to 16 million, so we went to 20. Not my fault. And, I had taken the first million dollars from a man, and promised I'd build the building. If you take cash from somebody, you have to deliver, or you're ruined for life as a person with no integrity, no character.

[ Key to Success ] Integrity

It was unbelievable pressure, and I had to deliver.

What was it like the first day you preached in the Crystal Cathedral?

Robert Schuller: I really can't remember. I think I was numb. There was a media event, such as I had never been involved in, and I had to perform. I didn't have the privilege of being able to sit back and look and watch and listen and applaud, or laugh or cry. I was on-stage.

I wanted to talk a little bit about your work with the Presidents, because I can't imagine a more important role than as spiritual advisor to the leader of the most powerful nation in the world. You've received a certain amount of flak for your relationship with President Clinton. How do you see that relationship? What are you doing for the President?

Robert Schuller: I don't think I'm doing anything more for the President than I would do for anybody else. I've only been in one profession all my life, and that's as a pastor. There are different roles in the clergy, you know? There's the role of the religious professor, there's the role of the religious journalist, there's the role of the evangelist, there's the role of the chaplain, and then there's the role of the pastor. These roles are distinctive, and I'm a pastor. I think I fulfill that intuitively, instinctively, maybe impertinently, when I'm talking to people, regardless of who they are.

Tell us how you first contacted President Clinton. What prompted that?

Robert Schuller: My closest aide and associate, who travels with me, and has been closest to me, said to me one Christmas Eve, "You know, you should call the President and wish him a Merry Christmas." I had never met him; I had no reason to connect with him. He was not on any list of people I wanted to meet for personal reasons. That's not a negative statement. I said, "Mike, why should I call him?" "Well," Mike says, "he is your President, and he's been through some bad times these past few months, and I think you're just the kind of a guy that could give him a lift. That's your gift. You give people a lift when they listen to you, you make them feel good. I think it would make him feel good on Christmas to get a call from you out of the blue. He could take a call from you, and he'd know you're not asking for favors. You're just being who you are."

So I said, "Mike, he'd never even answer. I'd never get through." Mike said, "Try it." So I called information for the telephone number of the White House, got the number, and said I was calling for the President. They said, "What's your name?" I told them my name, and they said, "Just a minute." Didn't take long, and they said, "I'm sorry, the President is not available to talk to you right now, can we have a number where you can be reached, if he chooses to return this call?"

I gave them my telephone number. And this is Christmas Eve. I have seven services, one right after another. He returned the call while I was up in the pulpit preaching, and they had to tell him, "I'm sorry, Mr. President, but Dr. Schuller can't come to the phone right now, can he call you back?" Then he called me back, and I got him on the line, and I remember thinking, "Oh my gosh, what am I going to say? Here's the President of the United States, and I've never met him." No memory to tap into. I wished him Merry Christmas.

I said, "You've had some bad press, but I have a line I use a lot: God loves you, whether you're right or wrong. God loves you whether you're good or not good. And God loves you, whether you believe in him or not." Something like that. "So Merry Christmas, Mr. President." Something I said hit, I guess, and that was the beginning of a relationship.

I believe you provided him with a line from Isaiah, that he used in the inaugural.

Robert Schuller: Yes, and I'm suddenly wondering, why did I give that to him? Intuitively? Instinctively? It is in my nature, it is my character. I want to give people a lift. I want to encourage people. It probably goes back to not being picked for the team as a kid. It is true that in love's service, only broken hearts qualify. I'm credentialed. I've had my hurts.

I think I gave him that text because I wanted to encourage him. It was the text that I put my hand on when I took my ordination vows in the year 1950, Isaiah 58:12. "You shall be called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in." That Bible verse has shaped my life. It has made me want to bring people together. The President was talking about building a bridge to the next century, this was his big thing. Those words turned me on. I think I've been a bridge builder. I still want to be a bridge builder. And the President, I thought, had better be a bridge builder.

Get the Flash Player to see this video. I'm sick and tired of this country being divided left and right, conservative and liberal, communist, pro-communist and anti-communist. I've lived my whole life that way. I'm 70 years old. And by God, now it's time for a President who can bring us together. I don't care what party he belongs to.

[ Key to Success ] The American Dream

So that's what motivated that text. Boy, it grabbed hold of me, like you wouldn't believe.

That's what you do, creating a space for the restorer of paths to dwell in. Creating a space, as you've created with the Crystal Cathedral. Creating a space where people can be themselves, their best selves.

Robert Schuller: I think we're at an era when smart people are coming to understand that you're not a very decent person if you try to indoctrinate people, or manipulate people, or attack people, or live with a confrontational paradigm in your personal behavior. I think this is a new era, where people respect you if you say, "I want you to be my friend. We don't agree on a lot of things, and you may not even have the character that I like, but you're fun. Let's be friends."

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