Norman Schwarzkopf Interview (page: 6 / 6) Commander, Operation Desert Storm	Print Interview

I would imagine there's a visceral thrill to doing the work you do sometimes, too.

Norman Schwarzkopf: Sometimes it's visceral thrill, and sometimes it's agony.

Is the military changing? Should it change, with regard to women in the military?

Norman Schwarzkopf: Women are very much a part of the military. They were very much a part of the Gulf. They already are integrated into the armed forces to a great extent. The big conflict now is over the role of women in combat.

This is a question that's being argued in the wrong arena. It's being argued in the arena of equal rights, and that's not the arena it should be argued in. It should be argued in the arena of national defense, and what's best for the defense of this country.

I talk about the problem this way -- take an armed forces that has a unit of 1,000 infantry men. These are the folks that fight with bayonets, and roll around in the mud, and the trenches. Now, oppose them with an organization of 1,000 people, 50 percent of whom are female. Is that really in the best interest of that second country to send that organization against an organization of 1,000 men with knives to fight in the trenches?

We must do what's in the best interest of this nation for the defense of this nation. At the same time, we must do everything we can to make sure that women in the military have the same opportunity that men in the military have to get ahead. But it's got to be a balanced approach, and not one that just blindly says, 50 percent of the entire military must be female, for no other reason than because 50 percent must be female. That's not the way to handle the problem.

Having said all of that, I've got to tell you that the women in the Gulf did a magnificent job. They had it much tougher than the men, because of the cultural sensitivities, and yet they handled it with ease, and they did an absolutely fantastic job. I am very much in favor of women in the military.

I happen to be one of those people that's in favor of women in the cockpit. I have no problem with women flying a fighter plane. If they're going to fly Medevac helicopters in the heat of battle, why can't they fly an Apache helicopter?

That's not shared by many of my friends in the military, but I happen to be one of those people that's in favor of women in the cockpit.

Is the military confronting race issues better now than it used to? Is there more work to be done?

Norman Schwarzkopf: Listen, the armed forces dealt with race before the entire rest of this country did. Today in the armed forces, racism and prejudice has essentially been eliminated. All you have to do is go out and look at the number of black soldiers you have in the military who are there because they feel that they have a far better opportunity for advancement in the military than they do anyplace else. The proportion is much greater than you find anyplace else.

Colin Powell, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff happens to be the highest ranking man in the entire U.S. military, and he happens to be a black soldier. I don't even look at soldiers as being black, white, red, yellow, green, purple, or pink, and most of my friends don't. But I'll tell you one thing, if we ever run into anybody who does, we get rid of them. We don't tolerate prejudice in the military.

And I'll tell you another thing, we have been going after sexual harassment in the military long before the civilian world even discovered what the term was. We came to grips with this many years ago when we started bringing more and more women in the military and found out that they were in fact being harassed. We have been dealing with that for quite some time in the military in a much stronger way than I think our civilian contemporaries have.

What about the drug problem?

Norman Schwarzkopf: The drug problem is almost eliminated in the military, and I'll tell you why. This thing called random urine testing. We have a unique situation in the military now where people want to be there, it's an all volunteer force. One of the interesting things about the Gulf War is the fact that all the people there volunteered. They either volunteered to be in the active force, the National Guard, or the reserves. Everybody in the military today wants to be there, and they don't want to be kicked out.

We've made it very clear that we conduct random testing, and that if a person comes up positive, they're kicked out of the military, it's just that simple. We don't tolerate drugs in the military today. All the surveys we have, and everything else, show that we're a lot cleaner in the military than we ever have been.

By the way, the same thing happens to apply to alcohol. It used to be that drunkenness, and DUI's, and things like this were tolerated. They're not tolerated anymore. If you want to get in trouble in your military career, just come up with one DUI. It's considered a very, very serious offense, and grounds for elimination.

If you could have a conversation with any great military leader of the past, who would that be? If we could eavesdrop, what would you ask?

Norman Schwarzkopf: It would be my dad, and I'd want him to know what I've done with my life.

That must be very frustrating. What do you know now about leadership, that you didn't know when you graduated West Point?

Get the Flash Player to see this video. Norman Schwarzkopf: It's not a perfect world. When I graduated from West Point I saw things very much in shades of black and white. And I've come to understand that - and I also demanded a great deal of myself then as a young man in shades of black and white. You had to do everything right, you couldn't do anything wrong. And that's not what's life is all about. But I guess the thing I probably learned more than anything else is: self-fulfillment is the most important thing of all. Being happy with what you do, feeling good about what you're doing is probably the great secret to life. You don't measure a person's success by what they take out of life, you measure a person's success by what they leave behind. You can have all the money in the world, you can have all the power in the world, you can have all the prestige in the world, none of that's important. What's important is what you do with it when you have it. That's what's important. That's what leadership is sort of all about.

What advice would you give a kid who is kind of insecure about the future, about succeeding in life?

Get the Flash Player to see this video. Norman Schwarzkopf: Trust yourself. Life is worth living. Life is worth living and life should be lived. There's more good out there than there is evil. Man is basically good. Mankind is basically good. I guess 30 years from now you'd say "personkind." I don't know. What I'm saying is, people are good. People are great. Enjoy them, and enjoy your life. And again, it's the point I would make to any young people, it's what I talk about with my children. People should dare to be themselves. Don't be something because somebody else tells you that's what you should be. Don't be a brain surgeon if you want to be an artist. You'll never make any money as an artist, you could make a fortune as a brain surgeon. But don't be a brain surgeon to make money. If you want to be a brain surgeon because you're really interested in saving people's lives, that's a reason to be a brain surgeon. Most of all, be yourself. Dare to be yourself. Take your God-given talent and use it the way you feel you should use it. Don't let anybody steer you down the path of, this way you get more money; this way you get more prestige; this way you get more success because I've seen so many people in my lifetime who burn out. They get all of these things that they originally strive for, and then there isn't anything else. So, what do I do now? Because the one thing they don't have is it's not here. It's not in their heart. They don't have self fulfillment. They don't feel good about themselves. They don't feel satisfied because they measure their lives in terms of the next promotion, or the next award, or the next pay raise, or whatever it is. And one of these days, all that's over with.

[ Key to Success ] The American Dream

We talked earlier about duty, and how that drives you and has driven you throughout the course of your career. Now you mention self-fulfillment. The two are not mutually exclusive at all.

Norman Schwarzkopf: Of course not. The most fulfilling times I've had were times when I was doing my duty, with no personal gain for myself. I got nothing tangible from it, and yet I got everything from it, that's the point.

Looking ahead to a hundred years from now when somebody is writing about the life of General Norman Schwarzkopf, what are the things you would like brought out? What are you most proud of?

Get the Flash Player to see this video. Norman Schwarzkopf: A man does not get to write his own epitaph. But if I were to write mine it would say the following: He loved his family, and he loved his troops, and they loved him -- period.

Thank you for taking the time to talk with us today, General. It has been an honor and a pleasure.

Norman Schwarzkopf: You're welcome.

Norman Schwarzkopf Interview, Page: 1   2   3   4   5   6